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Nov 11, 2008

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I believe that the way to create better patents is by repeal of a blantantly unconstitutional section of the patent code. the e, f and g exceptions under 35 USC section 103

"I thought most of the money in prosecution was made with drafting the application and not on OA responses."

Applications are a nice chunk at once, however there is plenty of money to be made in responding to a steady stream of OA's. My time each month is split fairly evenly between drafting applications and responding to office actions.

As PDS has pointed out, sophisticated corporate clients don't get upset at the attorney when examination is poor and the attorney must spend more time to get the case allowed. Companies who file hundreds of patents a year know and understand exactly what is going on at the PTO.

Poor examination only makes me more money..

Can someone explain the harm done by poor quality patents? I suppose they offend our sense of aesthetics, but what harm do they do otherwise? I see a risk in raising fees to discourage patenting, and I am not sure what the point of taking this risk is.

Disclosure - I am a patent prosecutor and I know I have a pro-patent bias. But on the other hand I like to think I don't file "poor quality" patents so I have no particular need to get defensive about them. :-)

This comment is based on a few comments upstream. I wonder if the PTO has ever tried to produce a metric of how long, on average, it takes an Examiner to examine 1 claim.

It seems to me this would not be so difficult to do, assuming that Examiner time is tracked on an per application basis. It must be if Examiners are only allowed a maximum of 30 hours per app. If the PTO could produce this kind of metric, then it would be a no-brainer to scale the length of time allowed per application to the length and/or number of claims in the application.

Just a thought...

"I suppose they offend our sense of aesthetics, but what harm do they do otherwise?"

Are you kidding? You put a lot of effort into your post, but if you're smart enough to be an attorney, you sure as he11 are smart enough to figure out what the "bad" thing about having "bad" patents around is.

Most seriously, this theory is based on and perpetuates the myth that the value of inventions, much less patent claims thereon, can be accurately determined at the early date on which patent applications must be filed. That is usually before the product has been fully developed and tested, mass manufacturability established, essential market success [at the whim of the public] established, and then competitive alternatives or design-arounds developed.

anon,

Re your idea about timing for 1 claim examination & extrapolating:

Interesting, but there are a LOT of variables that would still need to be taken into account. These would include:

the field of art of the claim;
the experience of the examiner;
the competence of the examiner;
the length of the claim;
the details in the claim;
how much of the length and/or details are conventional & how much are well known;
is there actually prior art out there on that claim;
how well the claim is written;
how well the spec is written;
etc...

IF you can take ALL of this into account, you MIGHT have a starting place, but there would be a LOT of work still to do.
We all know that claims are not cookie-cutter & vary with regard to all of the above. So, even if you had a decent accounting for all of the above, you would then need to determine how to modify that number for all of these (and any other) variables to come up with a metric that would be usable for other cases & claims.

Not trying to be negative, just pointing out that most solutions are not so easy when you really get down to the brass-tacks of things. People often do not consider all of the variables when suggesting something & so something may sound good at 1st blush but when really analyzed flaws develop. And, unless people are willing to accept that their ideas have flaws & are willing to adjust to take other factors into account, the ideas are usually more harmful than beneficial (much like the rules packages that they tried to push thru).

Just like the 1d10t on here & his idea about adjusting production for examiners by the number of pages of spec & the # of claims. AT BEST, that would be a zero-sum game (which he has admitted) & be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. In practicality, would probably result in LESS time for examiners to do a case & be like seeing the iceberg & ordering "Full steam ahead!"

Personally, I would love to see changes made to production as well as a lot of other things in the examination process. However, until we get people on BOTH sides of prosecution to agree to their role in the problems and be willing to compromise to get to a better solution for everyone, the public, applicant, assignee, examiner, and attorney alike, things will not get better.

Just my 2 cents.

MVS

What impact do you think articleonepartners.com will have regarding patent reform?

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/11/17/ap5702436.html

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